100 Watts, 100 Feet, 100 Miles

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Project25
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100 Watts, 100 Feet, 100 Miles

Post by Project25 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:41 pm

I officially hit a new low today (aside from fondling an APX8500 for a little bit). Programmed an APX7500 (VHP,7/800MP) for a conventional, simplex channel and that's all.
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Long story short, customer has been using 100W radios for 30 years and will not accept anything other than a 100W radio. Currently they've got PM1500's and then they added a new truck...which meant a search for a new 100W radio. Tried the VX-6000 and after 8 months they have refused to pay for it because it has never performed adequately to their needs (it's receive sensitivity is 5 dB below the PM1500). Then we managed to get an Icom on consignment witch was their 100W, P25 model. That tested on the bench 6 dB below the PM1500 so I never even bothered to install it. So here we are...about to install a demo APX7500 in a cement mixer. For the record, yes I suggested the TK-790 but we are not an authorized Kenwood dealer therefore it isn't an option.

The main rant (and it's ironic because I started an unscripted podcast rant on the subject Saturday night while driving) is the old days of truly needing 100W radios are nearly gone. Receivers have gotten better, 50W is only a 3 dB difference (which is not an understood concept to customers) infrastructure is now nearly common-place and many SMR's can easily provide the coverage simplex dispatch setups simply cannot.

The sad part, this isn't my only customer with this mindset. Yet I will typically entertain it for public safety customers (hell, even I have a HP XTL in my pickup) but for those true LMR holdouts, I'm quickly running out of solutions to try suggesting (and sales reps who will actually listen to my suggestions).
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Notarola
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Re: 100 Watts, 100 Feet, 100 Miles

Post by Notarola » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:40 pm

Another issue with some digital systems is the ISW/OSW windows if you get outside the 60mile (average) range of most systems including simplex all the power in the world isnt going to help.
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Re: 100 Watts, 100 Feet, 100 Miles

Post by motorola_otaku » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:43 pm

Ahh, but extra power combined with antenna gain will get'cha out there a little bit further. I'm going to venture a guess that this cement company probably runs 5/8-wave antennas on their cabs; most of the VHF guys around here do.

If they want to drop $5k on a super-basic HP APX7500, I say sell it. A fool and his money are soon parted, and they'll make great surplus units when he throws them up on Ebay as "motorola cb radio 100 watts." :lol:
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Project25
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Re: 100 Watts, 100 Feet, 100 Miles

Post by Project25 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:24 pm

Between us, I've already told him to look on eBay and other sources for either used XTL5000's or PM1500's but officially that takes the sale away from the salesperson. This particular radio is going to be installed on a demo basis…and since it's a loaner from Motorola…everything will have to be pulled from the truck only to be replaced by an APX6500 later on.

So just for this job…I've had to install the VX-6000, now I'll remove it (completely though I don't know what we are going to do with it), then install the APX7500 only to remove it after the demo period is up and then if they like it install the APX6500.
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Re: 100 Watts, 100 Feet, 100 Miles

Post by Notarola » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:49 pm

how about using a linear? P25 works fine with them?
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Re: 100 Watts, 100 Feet, 100 Miles

Post by MattSR » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:55 pm

You don’t need a linear amplifier. Class C works just fine and is cheaper and uses less power.
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Project25
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Re: 100 Watts, 100 Feet, 100 Miles

Post by Project25 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:17 am

Notarola wrote:how about using a linear? P25 works fine with them?
Who said anything about P25? I'm talking straight analog, simplex usage.
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Re: 100 Watts, 100 Feet, 100 Miles

Post by Notarola » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:21 pm

I assumed that since you were looking at the APX line that P25 might have been in the future.
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Re: 100 Watts, 100 Feet, 100 Miles

Post by Project25 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:17 am

Notarola wrote:I assumed that since you were looking at the APX line that P25 might have been in the future.
Nope…Plain old FM.


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